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FMCARP

Articles Posted: 5  Links Seeded: 6
Member Since: 2/2009  Last Seen: 5/18/2012

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A "must read" for all Americans: The actual words and wisdom of our Founding Fathers

Sun May 9, 2010 8:35 AM EDT
politics, liberty, founding-fathers
By fmcarp

Live Poll

Do you have sufficient knowledge of the thoughts and wisdom of the Founding Fathers?

View Results
  • 96973
    Yes
    50%
  • 96974
    No
    50%

VoteTotal Votes: 6

Live Poll

Do you think that our representatives in Congress do?

View Results
  • 96975
    Yes
    0%
  • 96976
    No
    100%

VoteTotal Votes: 7

Live Poll

Do you think an education in the Founding Fathers should be a prerequisite of candidates to Congress?

View Results
  • 96977
    Yes
    71%
  • 96978
    No
    29%

VoteTotal Votes: 7

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For the past two years, many people have talked about the need to go back to the original intents of the founding fathers of our country. This is all very good, if only those people had taken the time first to actually read and understand the words and wisdom they perportedly thought from which we had strayed.

After the latest misinterpretation, I think all politicians, political pundits and any others who see the need to "quote" the makers of this great country, should be required to actually read from the original writings that which they quote. Had Sarah Palin done this on The O'Reilly show, or had Bill himself had the facts to set the record straight then and there, the country as a whole would be far better off.

With that said, I think it best to start to post some actual writings of the Founding Fathers so that just maybe a debate may insue that has a basis in fact. It would be easy to start with their actual thoughts on religion and government to aid Sarah in her education, but I feel most everyone is aware of the "seperation of state" foundations there.

Here is an article written by James Madison published in the National Gazette, February 20, 1792. The thoughts expressed here are as pertinent today as they were then.

"On Types of Goverment

No Government is perhaps reducible to a sole principle of operation...... It is useful, nevertheless, to analyze the several kinds of goverment, and to characterize them by the spirit which dominates each.

Montesquieu has resolved the great operative principles of government into fear, honor, and virtue, applying the first to pure despotisms, the second to regular monarchies, and the third to republics. The portion of truth blended with the ingenuity of this system sufficiently justifies the admiration bestowed on its author. Its accuracy however can never be defended against the criticism which it has encountered. Montesquieu was in politics not a Newton or a Locke, who established immortal system, the one in matter, the other in mind. He was in his peculiar science what Bacon was in universal science. He lifted the veil from the venerable errors which enslaved opinion, and pointed the way to those luminous truths of which he had but a glimpse himself.

May not governments be properly divided, acording to their predominant spirit and principles into three species of which the following are examples?

First. A government operating by a permanant military force, which at once maintains the government, and is maintained by it; which is at once the cause of burdens on the people, and of submission in the people to their burdens. Such have been the governments under which human nature has groaned through every age. Such are the governments which still oppress it in almost every country of Europe, the quarter of the globe which calls itself the pattern of civilization, and the pride of humanity.

Secondly. A government operating by corrupt influence; substituting the motive of private interest in place of public duty; converting its pecuniary dispensations into bounties to favorites, or bribes to opponents; accomodating its measures to the avidity of a part of the nation instead of a benefit of the whole; in a word, enlisting an army of interested partisans, whose tongue, whose pens, whose intrigues, and whose active combinations, by supplying the terror of the sword, may support a real domination of the few, under an apparent liberty of the many. Such a goverment, wherever to be found, is an imposter. It is happy for the new world that it is not on the west side of the Atlantic. It will be both happy and honorable for the United States, if they never descend to mimic the costly pageantry of this form, nor betray themselves into the venal spirit of its administration.

Thirdly. A government deriving its energy from the will of the society, and operating by the reason of its measures, on the understanding and interest of the society. Such is the goverment for which philosophy has been searching, and humanity been fighting, from the most remote ages. Such are republican governments which is the glory of America to have invented, and her unrivalled happiness to possess."

Here are some links to help with the references made:

http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/montesquieu/montesquieu.html

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke/

To read this one article and see the vision that created this country is to understand why an education in the Founding Fathers is more than just an interesting hobby but a requirement that will help preserve what they so labored to establish.

How close are we to falling into the trap which is alluded to in the second case? Do we possess the wisdom that is possessed in this one article?

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  • Public Discussion (8)
fmcarp

Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams. Why, when they have made things so easy for us, by doing all the hard work for us, by creating a constitution, by setting down on paper so many of the principles and wisdom we need to govern this country, do we continue to fall prey to the distractions of the moment nd lose sight of the true path that was set for us so many years ago?

  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Sun May 9, 2010 8:49 AM EDT
EdisonEllis

do we continue to fall prey to the distractions of the moment nd lose sight of the true path that was set for us so many years ago?

Because this is the 21 century, times are a changing, things are going on the FF couldn't never have envisioned, no one really knows their thoughts, just their writings of which many are interpreted to present only their view and subject to interpretation by the opposing views. Another reason we don't know their thoughts is that they have been dead for 200 years and no one knows a dead persons thoughts.

Like the Bible the papers of the FF should be viewed as a guide not as written in stone. You can't not govern 300 million people the way you govern 1 million. You can't govern when atomic weapons are the mainstay of defense the same as when smooth bore cannons were the mainstay. You can't govern when there is instant communication with other parts of our country and the world the same way when it took days, weeks and months to communicate with people and the world.

Attempting to live in the past, without regard to the present and future is a failing of the right and the republican party.

  • 4 votes
Reply#2 - Sun May 9, 2010 10:00 AM EDT
fmcarp

Times change, but the principles of truth, honor, moral dispositions, will never change. The Republicans, while they feel they are the "Moral Majority" have failed to be both moral and the majority. The whole right wing media has started to live up to the warnings expressed in the second species of government that he spoke of. Truth wins out. Don't underestimate the ability of the American people to see the truth behind all the lies. If the Republicans think this November plays into their hands, there will only be one party surprised.

  • 4 votes
#2.1 - Sun May 9, 2010 10:11 AM EDT
Reply
midgebaker

Little-Known U.S. Document Signed by President Adams Proclaims America's Government Is Secular

Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

  • 4 votes
Reply#3 - Sun May 9, 2010 10:45 AM EDT
Nasty Liberal

It would be good for legislators to be required sure knowledge regarding the Founders, and of course the document they're pledged to serve; however...

Context of course is vital, so study of the history, the times, the world's cultures then and now?

I really don't know how much would be enough.

  • 1 vote
Reply#4 - Sun Aug 29, 2010 10:18 AM EDT
SuDuToo

How close are we to falling into the trap which is alluded to in the second case?

the first case?

    Reply#5 - Sat Sep 4, 2010 8:21 PM EDT
    fmcarp

    Secondly. A government operating by corrupt influence; substituting the motive of private interest in place of public duty; converting its pecuniary dispensations into bounties to favorites, or bribes to opponents; accomodating its measures to the avidity of a part of the nation instead of a benefit of the whole; in a word, enlisting an army of interested partisans, whose tongue, whose pens, whose intrigues, and whose active combinations, by supplying the terror of the sword, may support a real domination of the few, under an apparent liberty of the many. Such a goverment, wherever to be found, is an imposter. It is happy for the new world that it is not on the west side of the Atlantic. It will be both happy and honorable for the United States, if they never descend to mimic the costly pageantry of this form, nor betray themselves into the venal spirit of its administration.

    This is the second case as presented in the article. Your point?

      #5.1 - Sun Sep 5, 2010 10:48 PM EDT
      SuDuToo

      I would say that we are well into our way of the second case, but did not the first case come before; with the development of the atomic bomb?

        #5.2 - Sun Sep 5, 2010 11:18 PM EDT
        Reply
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